Lead from the Outside by Stacey Abrams

In this episode, we unpack Lead from the Outside: How to Build Your Future and Make Real Change by Stacey Abrams, an empowering guide for anyone striving to break barriers and lead with impact. Abrams shares her journey from humble beginnings to becoming a political powerhouse, offering actionable strategies for navigating challenges, building influence, and achieving goals against the odds.

Hosts Dave and Poppy delve into the book’s key insights, discussing how to leverage personal authenticity, embrace ambition, and create meaningful change. Whether you're pursuing a leadership role, a new career, or personal growth, this episode offers inspiration and practical advice for stepping into your power.

Join us as we explore how to lead from the outside, and transform obstacles into opportunities.

Thank you for tuning in to this episode of Mind Set in Stone Podcasts. If you enjoyed our deep dive, be sure to subscribe and leave us a review! Share your thoughts with us on social media, and let us know which book you’d like us to explore next. Until next time, keep your mind set in stone and your curiosity open.

This has been a Big L Riz Media Podcast—where big ideas meet lasting impressions.

Transcript

Welcome to Mind Set in Stone Podcasts where we dive deep into the most compelling books on the shelf. Join hosts Dave and Poppy as they uncover the stories, themes, and ideas that shape our understanding and inspire curiosity. Get ready to explore the big ideas that leave a lasting impact.

Let's get started.

Welcome in. Today we're diving deep into Stacey Abrams, Lead from the Outside. You guys have big goals, right?

This book, well, it's all about claiming leadership, even when you aren't starting those traditional positions of power. We're going to pull out the most useful advice, the most intriguing advice from Abrams' own journey, and hopefully you can apply it to your own lives.

It's about recognizing that leadership. It isn't a straight line, right? It's about navigating obstacles and carving your own path.

I love that. Abrams kicks things off with a really powerful story. Okay, so picture this.

She's at Spelman College, fresh off a tough breakup. And what does she do? Does she wallow?

No. She creates a life plan spreadsheet.

Right.

I don't know about you, but my post-breakup plan usually involves ice cream and bad reality TV. This spreadsheet, though, this is next level.

This wasn't just like a to-do list or anything. This was Abrams mapping out her ambitions, and we're talking big ones, like becoming a millionaire, a best-selling author, even the mayor of Atlanta. Wow.

She had it all laid out complete with timelines.

Oh, my gosh.

It really speaks to the power of articulating those big audacious dreams as a starting point.

Giving yourself permission to want those things without immediately shutting them down with self-doubt. But this brings up an interesting point that she makes in the book. Abrams also talks about minority fear.

What exactly does she mean by that?

It's the extra pressure of representing your entire group, not just yourself. For many people, especially for marginalized communities, the fear of failure, it isn't just personal. It's the weight of worrying that your mistakes will reflect poorly on everyone who looks like you, everyone who shares your background.

That's such a heavy burden to carry.

It is.

And on top of that, she also talks about the fear of success, the fear that achieving your goals might actually alienate you from your own community. It's like you're constantly navigating these conflicting anxieties.

Exactly. It's a constant balancing act. But what I find so inspiring is that Abrams doesn't shy away from these difficult conversations.

You know what I mean? Right. She names those fears, she breaks them down.

And in doing so, she kind of gives us permission to acknowledge and confront them in our own lives.

It reminds me of that quote, you can't conquer what you don't confront.

Right.

So, you've got this ambition, you're facing down those fears. Now comes the challenge of actually finding opportunities, especially when you're starting outside those like traditional circles of power, you know.

And that's where Abrams gets incredibly tactical. She talks about hacking access and entry, which sounds a little bit like, you know, a heist movie. But it's really about being resourceful and creating your own opportunities.

Okay. So, give us the inside scoop. What are some of the strategies she recommends?

One thing she really emphasizes is identifying what she calls uncommon points of access.

Okay.

And a perfect example of this is her story about a woman named Xiao. Okay. Xiao dreams of working for a prestigious international organization, right?

Right. But she kind of feels stuck because she lacks like that traditional experience.

I remember that story. It felt so relatable. So, what does Abrams suggest Xiao do?

Abrams tells her, get creative, think outside like the traditional pathways. Instead of only applying for the obvious roles, she encourages Xiao to look for organizations that are specifically designed to support underrepresented groups in her field. So, think like emerging leaders in your field or online communities focused on your specific intersection of interests and background.

It's like finding your tribe, those people who understand your journey and like the specific hurdles that you're facing.

Exactly. And those connections can lead to unexpected opportunities, mentorship, even job openings.

It's interesting you mentioned mentorship because Abrams also challenges the traditional idea of finding like a single all-knowing mentor, especially for those from marginalized backgrounds. It's not always easy to find someone who truly understands your experiences and your challenges.

And that's where her concept of what she calls a la carte mentorship comes in. It's brilliant really. Instead of seeking that one perfect mentor who can like guide you on everything, she suggests building a diverse network of advisors.

Okay.

Each with their own unique expertise and perspective.

So instead of a five-course meal from one chef, you're creating your own tasting menu, pulling in the best dishes from different culinary masters.

I like that analogy.

Yeah.

And this approach allows you to be really specific about what you need at different stages of your journey.

Right.

Need advice on like navigating office politics. Tap into that savvy colleague who's mastered the art of like the workplace, looking for guidance on a specific project. Reach out to that expert in your field.

It's about recognizing that no one person has all the answers. But by building this diverse network of mentors, you can access a wealth of knowledge and support.

So, it's less about finding a single mentor and more about building like a personal board of directors, each bringing their unique strengths and experience to the table. Yeah. I love that.

This is really resonating with me. Yeah. What else does Abrams suggest when it comes to hacking access and entry?

Well, she also talks about leveraging quotas to your advantage. Now, I know this can be a sensitive topic. Right.

But Abrams argues that instead of shying away from quotas, we should be strategic about using them as stepping stones.

She even draws a parallel to legacy admissions.

Right.

That idea that some universities give preferential treatment to applicants whose parents or grandparents attended.

Yeah.

Which is essentially a form of quota that benefits the already privileged.

Exactly. It's about recognizing that these systems exist. And instead of feeling ashamed or resentful, we can be savvy about using them to create opportunities for ourselves and others like us.

That's a really interesting perspective. She's basically saying, play the game strategically, even if you don't like all the rules.

Right.

So, we've talked about finding those uncommon points of access and leveraging systems to your advantage. What else does Abrams recommend?

Internships. She tells a great story about her own staffer, Jenny, who actually started as an unpaid intern and ended up becoming a crucial part of her team.

This wasn't just any internship though. Didn't Abrams specifically need to fill a quota for a minority hire? And Jenny saw that as an opportunity.

You've got it. She recognized it as a chance to just get her foot in the door. It wasn't about the pay.

It wasn't even about the initial tasks. It was about proving herself, going above and beyond, and demonstrating her value.

It's like she turned a potentially limiting situation into a launching pad for her career.

Exactly.

And it wasn't just about checking a box. Jenny used that opportunity to build relationships, gain experience, and ultimately launch her career.

And that's the key takeaway here. Even if you're starting in a position that wasn't handed to you on a silver platter, make it your own. Exceed expectations.

Be so good they can't ignore you. And turn that initial opportunity into something much bigger. It's like that saying, bloom where you're planted, but like with a strategic twist, you know?

You're not just passively accepting whatever comes your way, but you're actively looking for ways to grow and maximize your impact, even in like less than ideal circumstances.

I love that. It's about taking ownership of your situation and making it work for you. And it reminds me of another story Abrams shares about her time running for state representative.

She was struggling to get endorsements from those big name established figures, you know. And it would have been easy to just be like, okay, well, I guess this isn't going to work.

Right.

But she didn't.

She pivoted. She recognized that her strength was in fundraising and connecting with people on a grassroots level. So, what did she do?

She hired local community members to help of her campaign, focused on building relationships, and she ended up winning, you know, despite the lack of that traditional support.

That's a powerful example of recognizing your strengths and finding alternative paths to success. Now, once you're in the door, Abrams talks about the importance of building relationships with everyone, even those who might seem, you know, less important in the grand scheme of things. She emphasizes recognizing the knowledge and expertise of, like, the support staff, the assistants, the people working behind the scenes.

Absolutely. And she shares a really insightful story from her early days as a leader. She was struggling to manage a team of attorneys who saw her as an outsider, and honestly, they were kind of hostile towards her.

It would have been so easy to get caught up in that power struggle and try to, like, assert her authority and demand their respect. But that's not what she did.

Right. Instead of trying to force it, she turned to an unexpected source for advice, her executive assistant, Kay.

Right. Kay had seen it all. She'd worked with different leaders, had a deep understanding of the office dynamics, and she was able to offer Abrams some incredibly valuable advice.

Didn't Kay point out that Abrams was inadvertently fueling the rebellion by constantly trying to prove herself and win them over?

Exactly. Kay's advice was so simple, but so profound, she basically told Abrams, stop giving your power away. She helped Abrams understand that her authority came from her position, not from their approval, and that she needed to act accordingly.

And it worked. Instead of constantly trying to please everyone and win them over, Abrams shifted her approach. She focused on building relationships, communicating clearly, and setting firm boundaries.

And guess what? She eventually earned their respect.

It's such a valuable lesson for any leader. Whether you're just starting out, or you've been doing this for years, sometimes the best advice comes from the most unexpected sources, from those who are often overlooked or underestimated.

It's about being open to learning from everyone, regardless of their title or position. Now, speaking of leadership, Abrams is also a big advocate for owning your accomplishments. This is something I think a lot of us struggle with.

Oh, yeah. Myself included. It's easy to downplay our successes, to attribute them to luck, or to say, oh, anyone could have done it.

It's so true. And Abrams admits that she used to do this all the time. She would minimize her achievements, attributing them to external factors, or downplaying her own role in her success.

But she had a turning point, right? Wasn't there someone who called her out on this self-deprecating behavior?

Yes. A senior female legislator pulled her aside and basically said, Look, you need to stop doing this. You're incredibly talented, you're working hard, and you deserve to own your accomplishments.

She explained that by constantly downplaying her abilities. Abrams was not only undermining her own authority, but also sending the message that she wasn't confident in her own expertise.

That's such a good point. It's not just about ego. It's about recognizing your own value and the impact of your work.

And it's especially important for those from marginalized groups who are often told, either directly or indirectly, that they need to be humble, to not make others feel uncomfortable, to shrink themselves down.

It's like we're conditioned to apologize for our own brilliance.

Right.

But as Abrams points out, if we don't own our successes, who will?

Exactly. And it's not about bragging or being arrogant. It's about acknowledging your hard work, your talent, and the impact you're making in the world.

So how do we actually put this into practice? What are some concrete steps we can take to own our accomplishments?

It starts with becoming aware of those self-deprecating tendencies. Notice how often you downplay your successes or deflect compliments.

Like when someone says, you did a great job on that presentation, and you're like, oh, it was nothing really. The slides were just really good.

Exactly. And instead of deflecting, try simply saying, thank you, accept the compliment graciously.

That's so simple yet so hard to do sometimes.

It takes practice, but the more you do it, the more comfortable you'll become with owning your accomplishments.

Now, speaking of recognizing our own value, Abrams also talks about the importance of money. She calls it one of the most impenetrable barriers to power. And I think that's something that resonates deeply with a lot of people, especially those who haven't come from wealth or privilege.

And she's incredibly open and honest about her own struggles with money.

Yes.

Which I think makes her message even more powerful. She talks about her early experiences with credit card debt in college, how she lacked financial literacy, and how those early mistakes had a lasting impact on her life.

And it wasn't just credit cards, right? Didn't she also get into trouble with back taxes because she was trying to help her parents financially while also juggling her own expenses?

Yeah. And it's a reminder that even successful, accomplished people can face financial challenges, especially when they're also carrying the weight of supporting family or community members.

It's like that saying, it takes money to make money. But it can also feel like it takes money to help family. And that could put a lot of pressure on people.

Absolutely. And that's why Abrams is such a strong advocate for financial literacy. She argues that understanding how money works, whether it's managing your own finances, fundraising for a campaign, or securing funding for a nonprofit organization, it's crucial for personal and professional success.

It's like learning a new language, right? The language of money. Right.

And if you don't understand that language, it can be hard to navigate certain spaces and advocate for yourself effectively.

Exactly. And it's not just about managing your own check book. It's about understanding financial statements, being comfortable talking about money, and knowing how to secure resources to support your goals.

So, what are some practical steps we can take to improve our financial fluency? I love that term, by the way, financial fluency.

It's a good one, right? And it's something we can all work towards. Abrams suggests some really practical things, like asking to serve on the finance committee of a board.

Even if you don't have a lot of experience, it's a great way to learn to ask questions and to gain valuable insights.

I'm going to write that down. It's such a simple but brilliant suggestion. And it's about being proactive, about seeking out those opportunities to learn and grow, even if it feels a little uncomfortable at first.

Exactly. And she also talks about the importance of being strategic and persistent when it comes to fundraising, especially for women and minorities who often face more skepticism and bias when it comes to securing funding. She tells a great story about crashing a board meeting as a college student to advocate against a tuition hike.

It sounds a bit audacious, but it worked. She not only made her voice heard, but she also formed valuable relationships with board members who ended up mentoring her and teaching her about the financial side of things.

It's a fantastic example of her hack access and entry approach in action. She didn't wait for permission. She saw an opportunity and she went for it, even if it meant stepping outside of her comfort zone and challenging status quo.

I love that. Okay, so we've talked about hacking access, owning our accomplishments and building financial fluency. What else does Abrams have in store for us?

Well, she also tackles a topic that I think is on a lot of people's minds these days, work-life balance. But here's the thing, Abrams doesn't believe in work-life balance. In fact, she calls it a myth.

Okay. That's a bold statement.

Right.

I have to admit, the idea of achieving perfect work-life balance kind of stresses me out. It feels completely unattainable, especially with all the demands of modern life.

Right. And that's exactly her point. She argues that the traditional idea of like work-life balance is unrealistic and ultimately unhelpful.

Instead, she introduces this brilliant concept called work-life Jenga.

Work-life Jenga.

Okay.

I'm intrigued. I'm picturing that game where you build a tower of blocks and then carefully remove them one by one, trying not to make the whole thing collapse.

You got it. And that's exactly what it's like trying to manage all the different aspects of our life, our work, our relationships, our health, our passions. It's not about achieving some like perfect equilibrium.

It's about constantly adjusting, prioritizing, and making sure that no one area of our lives is completely neglected.

So, it's less about finding a perfect balance and more about constantly reassessing and making adjustments as needed.

Exactly. It's about recognizing that life is constantly changing and evolving. And our approach to work-life integration needs to be just as adaptable.

That makes so much sense. And I love how this concept takes the pressure off trying to achieve some unattainable ideal. It's more about finding what works for you in each moment.

And she doesn't just talk the talk, she walks the walk.

Right.

Abrams is incredibly open about the challenges she's faced in her own life. Juggling a demanding political career, multiple business ventures, all while dealing with family challenges like her brother's addiction.

It's one thing to preach about work-life Jenga from a textbook. It's another thing entirely to live it out in the midst of real-life complexities.

Absolutely. And she doesn't sugarcoat it. She talks about the emotional toll of these challenges, the sleepless nights, the constant juggling act.

But she also emphasizes the importance of self-care even when it feels impossible.

And this is something she admits she struggles with herself, right?

Yeah.

She talks about her own tendency to overwork and neglect her own needs, which makes her advice all the more relatable.

Absolutely. She's honest about her own struggles of setting boundaries and prioritizing her well-being. But she also acknowledges the importance of finding those moments of respite, right?

Whether it's a walk in nature, a phone call with a friend, or simply taking a few minutes to like breathe and recharge.

It's a reminder that even the most driven, ambitious people need to take care of themselves, to be effective leaders and show up fully in their lives. I really appreciate her honesty about that. Now, you mentioned that Abrams is incredibly open about her struggles.

And one thing that really struck me in the book is how she talks about her experiences with failure. She's so candid about her setbacks, from losing her first election to making costly mistakes in her early career.

It's refreshing, isn't it? We live in a culture that often glorifies success and sweeps failure under the rug. But Abrams embraces it as a necessary part of the journey.

She even uses the phrase embracing the fail, which sounds a bit counterintuitive.

Right.

But it makes sense when you think about it.

It's about shifting our perspective. Instead of seeing failure as a sign of weakness or incompetence, she encourages us to see it as an opportunity for learning and growth.

She tells this great story about auditioning for the Yale Law Glee Club and completely bombing it.

Right.

It's both hilarious and incredibly relatable.

Right. What's interesting is that she analyzes her failure, not to wallow in it, but to understand where she went wrong. She realized that she hadn't prepared adequately, she'd let her fear get the better of her, and she hadn't asked for help when she needed it.

And that's a valuable lesson in itself, right? Sometimes we fail because we haven't put in the work, or we haven't sought out the support we need. We can't be afraid to ask for help when we need it.

Exactly. And Abrams encourages us to be honest with ourselves about our role and our own failures without letting those setbacks define us.

She also talks about the importance of letting your light shine, which is a beautiful way of saying, don't be afraid to be brilliant.

And she connects this to her own experiences with being told to tone down her intelligence, to not make others feel uncomfortable. She encourages us to embrace our strengths, even when they make others uneasy.

She also shares a story about a colleague, Jocelyn, who was discouraged from applying for a promotion even though she was clearly qualified. It's a sad but all too common example of how our own limiting beliefs and the expectations of others can hold us back.

It's a reminder that we need to be our own advocates, to believe in our own potential, and to not let others dim our light.

It can be hard to challenge those expectations, especially when they're coming from people we respect or admire. But Abrams reminds us that we have a responsibility to ourselves to use our voices, to advocate for our worth, and to shine brightly even if it makes some people uncomfortable. She also emphasizes the importance of boldness, of taking risks even when there's a chance of failure, which can be scary.

Oh, absolutely.

But she really emphasizes that.

She does. She tells this incredible story about her time in the Georgia legislature, where she attempted to use a procedural maneuver to block a bill she vehemently opposed.

It was a risky move, right? If I'm remembering correctly, it didn't even work in the end.

You're right. It ultimately failed.

Right.

But here's the thing, Abrams doesn't regret it, not one bit. Because sometimes it's not just about winning every single battle, you know. It's about having the courage to take a stand for what you believe in even when you know the odds are stacked against you.

It's about being strategic, of course, but also staying true to your values even when it's hard.

Exactly. And you know what I find so fascinating is how she connects those bold moves to the concept of making what you have work, which she also calls changing the rules of engagement. She's all about being resourceful, creative, and finding those alternative paths to success, especially when you're starting from a position of disadvantage.

It's like she's saying, if the traditional playbook isn't working, rip it up and write your own.

I love that. And she gives this really clever example of how she and a colleague used a procedural tactic called a delay to disrupt the Republican majority in the Georgia legislature. Now they knew they weren't going to win outright.

It wasn't about that. It was about slowing things down, forcing the other side to compromise and making their voices heard.

It's a brilliant example of how even when you're outnumbered or outpowered, you can still find ways to be effective, to disrupt the status quo and make a difference.

Absolutely. And it all circles back to that idea of work life Jenga, doesn't it? It's about being adaptable, being strategic, and recognizing that the rules are often fluid.

You have to be willing to bend them, break them, or even rewrite them entirely to achieve your goals.

So, as we wrap up this deep dive into Stacey Abrams' Lead from the Outside, what are some key takeaways you hope our listeners walk away with today?

You know, for me, it's that powerful combination of audacity and strategy that Abrams embodies. She's not afraid to dream big to set those ambitious goals, but she's also incredibly practical and resourceful when it comes to achieving them. She's constantly challenging the status quo, finding those creative solutions, and encouraging others to do the same.

I completely agree. It's like she's giving us permission to be both audacious and strategic, to embrace our ambition without apology, but also to be smart, resourceful, and relentless in our pursuit of those goals. It's not about waiting for someone to hand you power.

It's about claiming it for yourself.

And one final thought I want to leave with you. Abrams talks about embracing your own otherness, those experiences and perspectives that make you different. How can you leverage those unique qualities as your superpower?

It's something to think about as you step into your own leadership journey.

That's such a powerful reminder. Your otherness is your strength. It's what sets you apart, gives you unique perspective, and allows you to make a real impact in the world.

I love that. This deep dive has been incredible. Thanks for joining me today.

It's been a blast exploring these ideas with you.

The pleasure was all mine. I always learn so much from our conversations.

And to our listener, remember you are capable of incredible things. Don't be afraid to dream big, to take risks, and to lead from wherever you are. Until next time, keep learning, keep growing, and keep leading.

We hope you're leaving with fresh insights and a spark of inspiration. Remember to subscribe, leave a review, and check back for more episodes as we dive into new worlds of thought, one book at a time. Until then, keep your mind set in stone and your curiosity open.

This has been a Big L Riz Media Podcast, where big ideas meet lasting impressions.